Reader question – How can I get more respect in an all-male dojo?

 

Martial arts practitioner Kay complains that her dojo brothers don’t seem to take her seriously

I often find myself standing alone when it’s time to partner up, having to endure ‘locker room talk’ […] or finding that training partners don’t expect much from me.

[…] Just yesterday, the instructor said: “I know everyone’s doing 50 reps, but if you want you can stop at 25”. [But] I’m fitter than most of the guys in that class, as well as more experienced. What do I say in moments like that?

What do I say to the partner who jokingly says “Don’t worry I’ll go easy”, “I can’t hit you, you’re a girl” or “Your boyfriend must be scared of you”?

I want to disrupt this ingrained culture, make it clear that it’s not ok to behave like that or speak to me this way, but without being seen as confrontational, disrespectful or awkward – how do I do this?

This is a difficult topic. Some women want to be treated the same as men in the dojo – but others don’t, and would be frightened and appalled if they were. I’m highly committed to women’s participation in the martial arts; and yet I still go super-easy with women I don’t know, until and unless they make it clear they want to train harder.

Is this disrespectful? Perhaps – but hurting and scaring people who don’t want it would hardly be any more respectful . . .

Should women even have to try to get respect in the dojo?

In an ideal world, of course we shouldn’t, just as we shouldn’t “have to” keep ourselves safe while out, e.g. by avoiding being alone and drunk at the end of an evening. Many would argue that the real battle is to challenge and dismantle the societal structures and attitudes that make these measures necessary.

But it’s not necessarily an either/or. Self-defence expert Jamie Clubb differentiates helpfully between long-term and short-term self-protection. Long-term self-protection relates to deeper social change – alleviating poverty, inequalities, substance abuse and the other catalysts of violence. But while these issues are being addressed, Jamie explains:

In the short term we need immediate and accessible tactics. Our priority is to be safe. We have no time to work around the deep-rooted causes of what is happening when an assault is imminent.

– Mordred’s Victory & Other Martial Mutterings

In other words, it can be helpful and appropriate to focus on both long-term social change, and also in parallel, tactics for the moment. Therefore, I’m going to focus specifically here on some quick wins and other short-term strategies that women might consider if they want to take control and develop agency in a scenario that feels unfair, and seek more “equal” treatment in the dojo.

Issues around wider gender parity, and actions that can help women feel more comfortable in the dojo are also important, but they’re out of scope today (although I’ve written about the latter at length in a free e-book: How to make your dojo more female-friendly.)

Here then are eleven tactics that might be useful to Kay or others in a similar situation:

1. First of all, pick your battles

Only you can determine what’s going on in your own dojo, and whether you can turn things around and reset how you’re treated – or whether you’re in a group of men who simply don’t like strong women, and never will.

How can you tell what’s going on? Mehrabian famously claimed that words alone only count for approximately 7% of communication. Therefore a comment like: Your boyfriend must be scared of you, doesn’t really mean a lot without context. It could be rooted in appalling misogyny – or good-natured teasing of a dojo sister – or sheer nervousness around training with a woman.

If it’s the second or third scenario, then you’re probably fine to push through with some of the tactics suggested below. But if you’re in a dojo or other setting where you feel that bullying (whether sexist or not) is too entrenched and nasty to fight or overcome, you might just want to walk away.

What about if you’re not actually sure if you’re in a challenging situation that you should push through, or a toxic dead end? One key indicator is to look at yourself over time. Are you becoming stronger, happier, more confident and kinder as a result of your training? Or is the opposite happening?

You might also find it helpful to look at the list of red flags for an abusive dojo, which I’ve listed in this article.

Only you can decide what’s best for you, but listening to your intuition is a critical part of self-defence and becoming stronger, so please have regard to it.

2. Handle banter gracefully

Kay’s asked for advice on responding to jokey comments such as:

– Don’t worry I’ll go easy

– Your boyfriend must be scared of you

She wants to be accepted as an equal, but feels that the guys’ comments underline her outsider status. But men who get on well with each other are often far ruder than this to each other. Unlike bullying, teasing can be a positive, essential part of socialisation, for both humans and animals. Dachner Keltner writes:

Teasing is a mode of play, no doubt with a sharp edge, in which we provoke to negotiate life’s ambiguities and conflicts. And it is essential to making us fully human.

As noted above, it all depends on context. All of the comments you cite Kay, could be really nasty if they’re said in a derogatory way. But based on my own martial arts experience, I’m guessing it’s actually a combination of the guys being friendly and signalling their kindness and protectiveness, and also perhaps feeling a bit unsure and even nervous about how to train with you. Once the guys start being mean to you, if it’s clearly done with affection, you can probably take it as a sign of acceptance into the group.

If on reflection you think this is the scenario, then all you have to do is stay relaxed. Witty comebacks can be great, especially if they’re equally mean, but just laughing can also work great, as can giving them a bad look and then acting as if you haven’t heard. With regard to the press-ups comment, you could pretend not to hear it, or give some appropriately arch response; or if you feel it’s crossed the line, speak to him privately to explain that it makes you feel undermined. Showing open anger or irritation doesn’t tend to get you far, although in some settings anger may be the right response.

So listen to your intuition, try to determine if the comments are rooted in spite, nervousness or camaraderie; and act accordingly.

Kay also talks about “locker room talk” however. It’s not clear if she’s just hearing edgy banter and teasing, or whether it’s highly unpleasant, sexualised references to women. If it’s the latter, and if she’s not comfortable with it, this is a clear red flag and she needs to talk to someone, or possibly walk away if it can’t be resolved. If the guys know she’s uncomfortable but continue to talk like this in front of her, it shows a deep level of disrespect that can only be harmful if she tolerates it.

3. Understand how difficult it is for many men to hit women.

If a man won’t hit you in class, it’s frustrating; but he’s not necessarily being mean, or trying to put you down. Most men are deeply socialised to never hit a woman, and overriding this can feel excruciating. Here are some snippets from Alex Channon’s research into this:

Nico: It’s just not in me, man, to hit a woman, it’s like I know I won’t be able to do it even if I wanted to, like my hands just won’t do it.

Alex: But your hands hit Steve fine.

Nico: I can do that ‘cause he’s a man. I can’t hit Beth ‘cause she’s a woman, I can’t do it.

Steve: I feel really uncomfortable that I could hurt a woman in that way, even if she’s asking me to do it I feel really uncomfortable, you know, physically uncomfortable with doing that.

Andy: When I was in the young categories… I had to fight a girl (at a tournament) and I just couldn’t hit her, I just stood there and let her beat me. I was in tears afterwards.

You can explain to such guys that you feel frustrated when they won’t hit you, because then you can’t learn. But Alex explains that because this aversion to hitting women is actually engrained in men’s bodies, the best way to overcome it is also on the physical level – namely “physically pushing men into action”. In my experience, ways to physically signal readiness to train hard include:

• Attacking others with intent (obviously appropriate to their own confidence and skill level)
• Being cool about it if someone hurts you clumsily, and it’s a genuine accident and you’re not injured
• Maintaining a good level of physical fitness
• Being relaxed with teasing and banter (as long as you’re comfortable it isn’t verging into bullying).

And actually, this is not just for your own benefit. Whenever I train with a man who “can’t” hit me, even when I want him to, I wonder what he’d do if a woman attacked him for real. Female on male domestic violence for example, is a genuine, serious issue. I’ve queried this to individuals a couple of times, and they always say: oh, if this was a real situation I’d have no problem defending against a woman.

Seriously? Let’s hope this is never tested! In any case, I think that any martial artist with such a massive hang up about fighting half the world’s population could probably benefit from you desensitising him a bit.

4. Be aware that some guys might feel confused by training with you

A male martial artist friend (who wishes to remain nameless) tells me:

You can’t change millennia of evolution overnight. We (men) don’t like to be confused. We like certainty. Any kind of touch with the sex you’re attracted to can cause confusion, especially for younger guys, and especially if you’re attracted to that person. There’s also a genuine fear of putting your hand in the wrong place. Especially in ground work – it can get embarrassing, and people start joking about it.

Younger people in particular are more led by their emotions, and the confusion of training with a female partner can interfere with your ability to do the technique properly.

You may not think this is real, but if someone you were very attracted to unexpectedly walked into the dojo and started to train with you, chances are you’d lose it in the same way.

Alex Channon and George Jennings explore some of these issues in their paper: ‘The Rules of Engagement: Negotiating Painful and “Intimate” Touch in Mixed-Sex Martial Arts‘. They offer a few pragmatic strategies for female martial artists, including the following:

• Self-imposed regulations against “romantic” involvement with training partners. Alex and George note that by openly publicising sexual unavailability within the club, women can reduce ambiguity and confusion by making it clear that they’re just there to train and nothing else – and in addition, can often develop deep, platonic relationships with their male training partners which are very conducive to training.
• Wearing a sports bra with plastic cups or other protective gear or types of training uniforms to “hide” the breasts, or otherwise desexualise close contact.
• Men and women just getting on with training, and becoming desensitised to touching and being touched by each other.

So a bit like the “unable to hit women” issue noted above – you may find it frustrating when men appear to avoid training with you, but it may help to think about the possible reasons behind it, and ways that you might assume agency in minimising the issue.

5. Be aware of your own body language

It would be good to believe that we’re all a blank canvas when we first step on the mats. That regardless of gender, we’re nothing more than a beginner, with freedom to paint our own picture of who we are.

Well to some extent this is true, but it’s also true that many women have been socialised over the years into behaviours that can make us appear less talented or suited to martial arts. These often stem from being “feminine” and “demure” in our body movements, and include reluctance or inability to practise with intent, express confidence in our movements, or even to make noise. Instructor Alexis Fabricius says:

Even in an all-female space where participants have paid for instruction, it is difficult for many to let go of these learned behaviours. My students often tell me that they feel embarrassed about being loud, or giggle nervously when asked to hit the pads with force.

Iris Marion Young’s classic essay: ‘On Throwing Like a Girl’ explores how the constant pressure to be “feminine” and self-conscious shapes the way we move. It’s worth quoting at length here:

The basic difference which Straus observes between the way boys and girls throw is that girls do not bring their whole bodies into the motion as much as the boys. They do not reach back, twist, move backward, step, and lean forward. Rather, the girls tend to remain relatively immobile except for their arms, and even the arm is not extended as far as it could be. Throwing is not the only movement in which there is a typical difference in the way men and women use their bodies. Reflection on feminine comportment and body movement in other physical activities reveals that these also are frequently characterized, much as in the throwing case, by a failure to make full use of the body’s spatial and lateral potentialities. Even in the most simple body orientations of men and women as they sit, stand, and walk, one can observe a typical difference in body style and extension.

[…] The previously cited throwing example can be extended to a great deal of athletic activity. Now most men are by no means superior athletes, and their sporting efforts more often display bravado than genuine skill and coordination. The relatively untrained man nevertheless engages in sport generally with more free motion and open reach than does his female counterpart. Not only is there a typical style of throwing like a girl, but there is a more or less typical style of running like a girl, climbing like a girl, swinging like a girl, hitting like a girl. They have in common, first, that the whole body is not put into fluid and directed motion, but rather, in swinging and hitting, for example, the motion is concentrated in one body part; and second, that the woman’s motion tends not to reach, extend, lean, stretch, and follow through in the direction of her intention.

No one is saying that you have to change yourself; and being your own version of feminine is your call. But it can be helpful to observe and explore ways in which your body (including your voice) may express fear or timidity in the dojo, as this may in turn influence how dojo colleagues respond to you, and ultimately present barriers to your training.

6. Embrace and explore role-playing “masculine” behaviours

For me, this is a really juicy part of martial arts training. Many women feel conditioned by friends, family and society in general into being “nice”, “gentle”, compliant and so on. It can be hard to break out of this, and many of us fear being rendered “unfeminine”. Catalyst research on women in leadership found that:

• 

  When women act in ways that are consistent with “feminine” gender stereotypes, they are viewed as less competent leaders (too soft).

• When women act in ways that are inconsistent with such stereotypes, they’re considered as unfeminine (too tough).
• Women leaders are perceived as competent or likable, but rarely both.

This is depressing – but wouldn’t it be great to be part of a group that wants you to be more aggressive, and teaches and encourages you how to do it? Well if you find the right dojo, that’s exactly what you’ll get. Strong teachers and peers who scold you for not displaying enough intent, and feel genuinely excited when you start to pull it off.

Tactical use of aggression is a skill worth cultivating; and you don’t have to lose your femininity. Research from the Stanford Graduate School of Business found that in the workplace, women who are aggressive, assertive, and confident, but who can turn these traits on and off, depending on the social circumstances, get more promotions than either men or other women. Marguerite Rigoglioso writes:

The interesting thing from the findings of this study is that being able to regulate one’s masculine behavior does not simply put women on par with men, it gives them even more of an advantage. This shows that for women who do want success at the managerial level, the paths are there.

So if you ever feel frustrated because your family, friends, colleagues and others appear to “not let” you develop or express your aggression in a healthy way, consider using your martial arts training as a premium way to achieve this transformation.

At the same time, displaying intent is a clear way to signal to male training partners that you want to be taken seriously in the dojo.

On a related note Kay, I really get what you say about no one wanting to pair up with you, having been there so many times, and it’s a common complaint from female martial artists. I complained about this very issue to my own Sensei at one point. He simply said: you need to be more aggressive and grab one of them. I know you really don’t want to, but that’s the best way forward.

And when I tried it, it did work, and made a huge difference . . .

7. Don’t be scared of your own aggression

Physically attacking and even hurting others can be very difficult for many women, given that many of us are taught and conditioned from babyhood to be soft, gentle carers and healers – not destroyers.

We tend to see aggression as always a bad thing – but in fact it’s a crucial component of human survival and development. The child psychiatrist D W Winnicott believed that all babies absolutely need to experience expressing their own aggression – and have their mother survive their aggressive behaviour – in order to progress with healthy human development. But, Leah Hager Cohn writes:

By the time they are one or two, girls are receiving the opposite message: that the world will not withstand their attacks […] Girls and women fear that their anger could destroy others . . . that to express anger threatens annihilation […] Study after study shows that parents and teachers, wittingly or not, stifle aggression in girls and encourage it in boys.

– Without Apology: Girls, Women and the Desire to Fight. Pages 67-8

Cohen also explores how some female aggression can sometimes be redirected into gossiping and bitchiness, anorexia, self-harm or depression. And if this is true, then the role of martial arts in liberating women’s natural aggression in a healthy way could be wonderful indeed. It can feel really exciting to unleash yourself on a partner who can take care of themselves and absorb whatever you launch at them, and can create an overwhelming sense of safety. Because Cohen is right; the fear of hurting others can actually be more potent than the fear of getting hurt yourself.

I remember saying to a training partner once in the early days: “I don’t want to hurt you” only to get the reply “That’s wrong; you should want to hurt me!” That made me laugh, and was definitely effective. Another effective way to overcome your own inhibitions, is to think about your partner’s training needs. In other words, if you don’t attack or defend properly, your partner doesn’t get the opportunity to learn properly.

However . . .

8. Don’t gratuitously hurt people who are stronger than you

We live with a double standard where it’s deemed unacceptable for men to hurt women (although sadly it continues to happen), but often quite amusing for women to hit men.

The interesting flip-side of Point 6 above, is that some women completely underestimate their own physical ability to hurt people, and can wreak havoc as they develop their skills. Susan Perry describes a hypothetical case study:

Lucy in her rigid and fearful body may be injuring her partner as she overcompensates in her movements. Large men complain all the time about how small women injure them in class. Lucy may not mean anyone harm, and she may find it hard to believe that she is hurting others, especially larger men […] Lucy assumes that a woman cannot protect herself […] a woman cannot injure a man, or that men do not feel pain.

– “Aikido and Illusion”. In Women in the Martial Arts edited by Carol Wiley. (1992) – pages 110- 115.

This issue of women hurting others excessively may sound quite far-fetched or counter-intuitive if you haven’t come across it. However, I’ve definitely been hurt by female beginners who don’t fully understand the mechanics of the technique, or its effect on uke’s body, and seem to believe that their beginner status and/or being a woman means that nothing they do can have any impact.

I believe that a key factor in this, is the tendency to “go easy” on women, which as noted above, I can also be guilty of. In such cases, the woman’s locks (for example) can become devastatingly painful – but they don’t realise this, because they don’t have enough experience of feeling them fully applied on their own body. They therefore don’t have a full kinaesthetic understanding of the technique, which will enable them to apply it sensitively and appropriately to different partners. In order to fully learn the art, we need to balance learning to receive and learning to execute the techniques.

9. Make sure you’re not creating a self-fulfilling prophecy

It’s often said that our thoughts create our reality. Psychotherapist Amy Morin writes:

I see this happen all the time in my therapy office. Someone will come in saying, “I’m just not good enough to advance in my career.” That assumption leads her to feel discouraged and causes her to put in less effort. That lack of effort prevents her from getting a promotion.

Or, someone will say, “I’m really socially awkward.” So when that individual goes to a social gathering, he stays to in the corner by himself. When no one speaks to him, it reinforces his belief that he must be socially awkward.

It’s all too easy to believe that men see you as less competent or interesting to train with, because you’re a woman. But if you feel this way, ask yourself whether this is actually your own belief, which you’re embodying and projecting in some way. Of course it could be a combination – people may have already made certain assumptions based on your gender, or some aspect of how you present yourself AND you may also be sabotaging yourself with negative self-talk. But unfortunately, if you go round saying that you’re not very good, others will tend to take it as a fact.

Here are some articles about reframing self-limiting beliefs:

• 6 Powerful Steps to Rewrite Your Self-Limiting Beliefs
• Forget Positive Thinking: This Is How To Actually Change Negative Thoughts For Success
• 4 Steps to Release “Limiting Beliefs” Learned From Childhood

10. Resist the double-edged lure of so-called “female privilege”

If we ask for special treatment, others may well give it to us. This may be because they think women are inferior, or it may be because they’re kind – but either way the results are the same. Helen (Karateka) writes:

Jen and I joined the dojo around the same time. She’s small, pretty and flirty, and doesn’t like to sweat or exert herself too much, but the guys don’t seem to mind. They always just indulge her and let her skip harder elements of training – they think she’s really sweet. It used to somehow hurt me that she was being treated as so much more precious than I was. 

It’s been a hard journey, but as time has passed, I’ve stopped feeling jealous of her. I’m learning far more, am physically much fitter, and am moving up through the belts faster. The guys do treat Jen and me according to two completely different sets of rules, but I can see that we’re both getting what we want, in different ways.

The idea of “female privilege” is contentious. Some argue that it far outweighs male privilege in our society. But others caution that while many elements of so-called female privilege may look desirable, they’re actually harmful, because they can keep us weak, submissive and inferior. The example above of Jen being allowed and even encouraged to opt out of “harder” elements of training is a clear example

Suffice to say for this article: if you want to be treated “equally” just make sure you don’t undermine it by asking for or accepting special treatment on the basis of your gender. At the same time however, be realistic about who you are, physically and mentally. It’s not ok to routinely encourage women to do press-ups on their knees  because they’re female. But it may be ok to allow it for men or women who are beginners, or have some physical limitation.

11. Get yourself a sponsor in the dojo (not a mentor)

Martial arts is an ideal environment to access the benefits of mentoring, as in: somebody who shows people the ropes, helps them settle in, and provides caring advice. However, Herminia Ibarra argues that “sponsorship” (as a specific type of mentoring) can be far more useful, career-wise.

Sponsoring really is a very targeted thing. It has to do with fighting to get somebody a promotion, mentioning their name in an appointments meeting, and making sure that the person that you’re sponsoring gets the next assignment, and gets visible and developmental assignments […] A mentor could be your direct boss. It could be somebody anywhere in the hierarchy. A sponsor has to be highly placed. Otherwise, they can’t actually pull the person up through.

Ibarra cites research showing that workplace mentoring of men tends to take the form of sponsorship more often, and be from more senior colleagues than women. And the outcomes are clear:

For men, there was a significant relationship between having had a mentor two years before, and having had a promotion two years later. For women, there was no relationship. Having a mentor had no correlation whatsoever with whether they got promoted or not.

There’s a clear link to martial arts training here. It’s nice to have sensei and sempai who mentor you – perhaps especially so when you’re new. But if you’re ambitious about progressing up the ranks, you might want to consider enlisting someone as senior as possible to be your sponsor in a harder-edged way.

A sponsor can also help with the difficult conversations Kay alludes to, e.g. challenging the “push up” comment, if you don’t feel comfortable to initiate them yourself.

Conclusion – Above all, just show up and train

It can be hard for a woman to break into and succeed within a male-dominated environment, whether that’s work, martial arts or some other arena. I hope these tactics have given you some helpful pointers on the subject.

But I think the best tip of all is probably to just show up, train hard and enjoy yourself. It’s sometimes said that boys have it easier when it comes to finding playmates, as anyone is welcome to join in as they can kick a ball (or whatever the activity in question is). As opposed to girls’ friendship regimes, which can be hard to penetrate to say the least. This definitely applies to a male-dominated dojo, in my experience.

In a healthy club, as long as you’re attending regularly, working hard, giving and taking appropriately and so on, getting respect should come naturally, even if you have to go through an initial phase where people may feel uncomfortable training with you as a woman, if they’re not used to it. Becca Borawski writes:

Females who stick around and take training seriously stop being females in the eyes of their teammates […] I found a strange comfort in androgyny. I could define myself without judgment. I could act however I saw fit. I could be strong. I could be intellectual. I could be plain or pretty. I was not good “for a girl.” I was not expected to be man or woman, or compared to archetypes of such. After a point, I too sometimes forgot I was the girl in the room. I forgot that there was even “boy” and “girl.” I was free. I was free to be the essence of me. 

And strive for excellence. As Andrea Harkins says:

For sure, there is no better way for women to earn respect than to show what they know by being instructors, competitors, judges, speakers, and writers. It is time to show the world their understanding and knowledge of martial arts topics. Seeing a woman compete shows an intense work ethic. Teaching or owning a school gives them a sense of ownership in the martial arts community. Coordinating martial art events or bringing martial artists together highlights their collaborative skills. Being published writers of books and articles allows them to share their unique perspectives.

Wishing you all the best Kay and hope this has been helpful to you and/or others . . .